Obsessed: For the Love of Whole-Animal Butchery

[照片和视频：Natalie Holt]

Editor's Note:Welcome back toObsessed，我们与来自粮食界的独特驱动的业余爱好者和专业人士进行了交谈。我们希望能阐明激发热情的食物书呆子的激情，从家庭厨师到厨师，再到老兵屠夫，鱼贩和农民。希望我们还会在此过程中挑选一些他们最喜欢的技巧，技巧和食物智慧。认识您认为这个采访系列的人吗？Email us!

白金，最新的April Bloomfieldand Ken Friedman's stable of establishments, is a chimera. While its owners like to call the Upper West Side space a butcher shop and an eatery, it is more than either of those two terms can sufficiently describe. In the morning, it's a butcher shop that sells a few excellent egg sandwiches and coffee; in the afternoon, it's a butcher shop that sells sandwiches and the savory English pastries known as pasties (as well as a single salad); in the evening, it's a butcher shop and a well-reviewed full-service restaurant. The room it occupies could easily be bisected by a dividing wall, creating a butcher shop on one side and a café on the other, with very little need for any architectural adjustment at all.

然而，将业务的两侧分开完全会破坏其中心存在的好奇空间，购物者站在展示箱中检查肉并订购肉，顾客坐在高凳子上，在高高的凳子上饮咖啡高，狭窄的公共桌子。通常，在这个地区拥挤的人们都不做。取而代之的是，他们对开放式厨房进行调查，或者查看（提出问题），因为两位屠夫之一为案例准备了肉。它使一个奇怪的场景变得奇怪，但是一个具有一定忙碌的魅力，很明显，尤其是在白金最繁忙的时刻，熙熙with的感觉唤起了空间的机会，而不是一个设计的机会。

这些屠夫，Jocelyn Guest和Nakamura也是共同所有人，他们在创建商店的布局中发挥了关键作用。专门安装了位于肉类柜台后面的屠夫块，以便以便在任何客户查询中出现屠夫。一方面，这仅仅是好的商业实践：他们的成功取决于销售客户可能不熟悉的肉类的切割。但是在我们2月的对话过程中，很明显，他们的目标不仅是移动肉或桌子，而且还要推进屠夫商店作为培养社区感的地方。

来宾和中村似乎是痴迷于专业食品工作世界之一的理想候选人，这在很大程度上是因为他们的肉类杂种。中村是由学徒计划中的首批学生之一Fleishers Craft Butcheryin Kingston, New York, and she went on to open Lindy & Grundy in West Hollywood, California, where Guest eventually ended up as an apprentice. Later, Guest would become the head butcher at Dickson's Farmstand Meats in NYC's Chelsea Market, and she and Nakamura were tapped by April Bloomfield to run the beef program at Salvation Burger and the lamb program at The Breslin restaurant, respectively.

Names:Jocelyn Guest，Erika Nakamura
年龄：分别为32和36
Website:怀特格兰特。com
Instagram:怀特格兰特

您能用自己的话描述您做什么？

Jocelyn Guest:我们的joke is that we take the big pieces and we make them smaller, because that's pretty much what we do all day.
Erika Nakamura：It is what we do all day. But essentially, what we do is whole-animal butchery. It's still very new American, in terms of the kind of cuts that we produce. In terms of style, I learned how to butcher on the counter initially, but, as I learned and traveled through the world of butchery, I realized that there's a reason why a lot of people cut hanging, vertically. Gravity has a lot to do with that.
JG:It's faster.
EN:It is faster, and we're a little smaller, so that makes it a little easier.

[to Guest]您学会了在柜台上屠宰吗？

JG:First on the bench, but then I moved back to New York, and I worked at迪克森的农业台肉，这一切都是悬而未决的。我认为由于空间和速度，纽约现在正倾向于悬而未决。那就是游戏的名称。这不是一项便宜的努力，因此您想使其清洁，利用和时间效率。

整个动物屠宰场中采购的积分是多么不可或缺的？

EN:我认为这是我们真正做的骨干。我们试图尽可能在当地，尽可能道德地来源。我们参观每个农场，我们与所有农民都有良好的关系。
JG:I talk to the beef farmer twice a week. You talk to the chicken farmer every day, maybe.
EN:完全。

你和他们谈论什么？

JG:What they feed them, how they raise them. Also, our beef farmer sends us pictures of his kids in their Halloween costumes. It's pretty intimate, because I feel like, when you know someone as a person, you know that they're going to be doing the right thing, because there's a lot of trust involved. We have to trust that the farmers are doing what they say. That's why we go to visit, to see and verify it. But also, when you know someone beyond "This is the dude that raises my beef," you trust what they're doing is right.
EN:正确的。另外，这确实是因为您作为客户需要信任我们。因此，这是一条信任链​​。我们必须能够站在你面前说：“我们去过农场。我们知道我们的农民。我们知道这些动物吃了什么。我们知道它们被屠杀的地方，如何被屠杀，效率高，听起来很大，它尽可能人道。”我认为这就是人们越来越想要的东西。这就是为什么现在像我们这样的企业存在的原因。

是否存在与全动物屠杀相关的特定挑战？

JG:The logistics can be a nightmare. Because we're very committed to the whole animal, we have to get a lot more creative in terms of what we put in the case, and what we put on our menu. We ran out of beef this morning, so I had to call the slaughterhouse and be like, "Can we pick up early?" I had to call the trucker and be like, "Are you around to drive an extra four hours today?" It's a multistep process. The way that we know these people, I don't want to screw anyone over. It's not, like, "Hey, take all this extra time out of your day and do something for me."

基本上，您对特定日期的任何需求都受到了个人的看法？

JG:正确的。当您获得全动物时，您将无法带来10个牛肉的侧面，这是关于我们每周在忙碌的一周中所做的事情。您要在哪里存储它？另外，在这里，我们几乎没有浪费。如果裁切有任何修剪，所有这些都会库存。如果有脂肪，我们将其呈现，然后将其放入油炸锅中。如果您带来了太多，那么您就会知道这会变得不好，这真是不尊重。

You render the fat for deep-frying for the restaurant?

JG:We started doing it out of need because we didn't want anything to hit the trash. Then, it also turns out it's a really terrific product. Way back in the day, McDonald's used to have beef fat in their fryers, but for whatever corporate reasons, they stopped. But our potatoes are insane because they're confited in beef fat, and then fried in beef fat.

Do you supply the other April Bloomfield restaurants with meat?

JG:我们做，是的。我们为The Spotted Pig，所有的救世汉堡。We do the beef grind for布雷斯林。

And you have specific cuts that you pull out for those grinds?

JG:Yeah, which was really important for us because, at this point, the tax structure for farmers and for everything else doesn't make this an affordable way to eat. It really pisses me off that it's a privilege and not a right. By grinding for other restaurants, we can keep our price point a little bit lower. We're a couple bucks lower than other whole-animal shops because we do all this other grinding, which, honestly, is the most sustainable way.

Because it's easier to sell ground beef?

JG:好吧，看，就像我脱下牛排的这一修剪一样，它将进入汉堡。牛到处都是一堆怪异的小肌肉，因此我们将所有这些肌肉都放在汉堡包上，这有助于我们仍然能够吸引全动物而不是...
EN:And minimize waste.
JG:是的，我认为这可能是做我们做的事情最困难的部分，因为就像每只猪一样，您都会陷入困境。您会引进更多的猪，因为您需要猪排，需要制作香肠，然后您有五个头，您就像，“好吧，我们只能做这么多头脑。”我们的chef de cuisine罗伯特（Robert）在菜单上放了一个猪头小吃。我们正在谈论可能做一些拉面汤，这是一件事情。您只需要发挥创造力，这也很有趣，因为它不仅是每天都在做同样的事情。
EN:是的，这不是一件琐事。它使我们保持脚趾。它还为我们的客户提供了越来越多的品种。

If your goal is 100% no-waste, how often do you hit that goal?

JG:您永远不会有100％。您已经看过干燥的肉，它如何在外面得到外壳？从本质上讲，这是一个很好的模具，可以使您味道并保护肉，但是您不能将霉菌放入食物中。猪，羊肉和母牛都具有与我们相同的腺体，这不是您可以使用的。基本上，我们使用的任何可食用的东西都不会毒害某人。当您发现“我想要牛肉肌腱”的客户时，总是令人兴奋。我们有这位奥地利女士，他总是想要猪肉肾脏。我们就像，“你是最好的。每天都来，请购买所有这些。”
EN:但是我们现在在晚餐菜单上做肾脏特别节目。最终，我认为，适应这种尝试最小化废物的尝试所做的最好的事情就是制作骨汤。我们每天出售大约66夸脱的骨汤。实际上，很多事情都可以做到这一点。也许不是脂肪，但我们呈脂肪。他们在那边做的事情，制作切碎的奶酪 - 他们用牛肉脂肪拿起切碎的奶酪。我们正在努力为一切准备住所。不幸的是，我们很难摆脱牛肉脂肪。室温凝聚的牛肉脂肪。它是完全牢固的。 Usually, you get companies that do biodiesel fuel to come and pick up fryer oil, and they'll pick it up for free because they can render it and they'll turn it into something else. They will not pick up our stuff because it's animal product, first of all, and second of all, they can't move it physically if it's not liquid. That's the current headache we're facing.

Before, you were saying that you guys do "new American" cuts. Would that include cuts likeBavette？

EN:我不知道。确实可以，但我想说的是Bavette更像是传统的法国人。在美国屠夫中，它被称为“超级50年代”的襟翼，牛lo瓣或皮瓣牛排。但是谁愿意购买“襟翼”？当我说“新美国屠夫”时，我的意思是，当我们屠宰猪时，我们仍然与野餐火腿和波士顿屁股相处。我们为每件事都有相同的名字。从这个意义上讲，这是非常传统和美国的。但是，我们将对其他一些曲折进行。例如，我们采用猪里脊肉，我们将两个绑在一起，所以这是一件更大的事情。我们只是对它进行了一些调整。
JG:Also, we have to do that because we use heritage animals, and they're smaller than what people are used to. Our pigs usually come in around 200, 250 pounds, versus some monster that is eating god knows what.

这样做的挑战之一是您必须习惯于看到牛lo和一定尺寸的东西时，必须管理客户的期望？

EN:Yeah, for sure.
JG:或者，一次购买五磅的衣架。
EN:确切地。
JG:There's one hanger on every cow.
EN:We try really hard to steer them in the direction that makes sense for us. There's still a good deal of education that happens over the counter. It's funny because I think, when Jocelyn and I started White Gold, we thought, no one wants to be educated. Most people come in and...it's like buying a pair of jeans, and someone approaches you, "Oh, do you need help?", and you're like, "No. No. I don't." There's a level of defensiveness that everybody comes in with. We came into it thinking, nobody wants to actually talk to us. Apparently, that's not true. Even though, at my old place in LA, I would hit a wall trying to educate people, and I'd get this glazed-over look, like they're just not really listening. You can see it happening, and they're getting defensive and kind of annoyed with you.
JG:是的。“全食距离三个街区。”
EN:确切地。But then, I've realized that so much of our clientele here are not that way, and they love it.

您认为客户与他们的屠夫建立良好关系有多重要？

JG:如果有人与我建立关系，这会使我的生活更轻松，因为那时我会更加了解他们想要什么，以及对他们成功的成功。归根结底，我觉得自己像个屠夫商店，尽管我们的餐厅也是一家受到好评的餐厅，但它仍然是一个邻里的地方。人们在家里为孩子，妻子，丈夫在家做饭仍然很糟糕。那太棒了，这就是我认为我们喜欢的东西。
EN:我认为这绝对是事实，我认为我们要与常客外在友好。我想知道他们的名字。我想了解有关它们的尽可能多的信息。应该这样。这是因为我认为传统上是屠夫商店，理发店，这些地方...
JG:Where you go kick it.
EN:That have always been gathering spots. It's a place where people talk about politics. It's a place where people mingle. I think it's important to assert yourself and insert yourself into the community as that place. Then, you want to invite people to be a part of that. I think the best way for that invitation to occur is to give the type of service that is old-school, that goes beyond what you would normally get at any regular spot. You're probably more inclined to want to go to the bar where you know everybody who works there. I want that for us, but I also want that for this community.

您如何看待以男性职业为主的女性？

JG:My dad is a retired Army guy who lives in Texas. I think he thought I was in the back of a grocery store, with a bunch of fat white dudes covered in blood. Then he saw Salvation Burger, and he's seen the chef, and now he kind of gets it. But I have a really skewed perspective because I learned at Lindy & Grundy's, which was owned by women, and lots of women worked there. Then when I went to Dickson's, it was mostly dudes. Here, I think it's a 50/50 split, so it doesn't seem novel to me.

[到Nakamura]What do you think about that? You've trained with a lot of guys.

EN:当然。我已经和很多人训练了。我也训练了很多人。这很有趣，因为总体而言，厨房传统上是男性主导的。然后我们也有四月，她是厨房里的野兽。我认为，在很多方面，我们作为女性倾向于过度补偿以更加重视。但是我不知道那是真实的事情。它发生了很大变化。甚至屠宰场也改变了很多。但是，我一直喜欢和Jocelyn开玩笑的是，她是每个人的朋友。 She's able to really get people to do what she wants by being a friendly boss. I rule with fear, all the way, through and through. People are afraid of using the sink behind me, you know what I mean? Maybe I have a Napoleon complex, and...
JG:你？
EN:Shut up. Also, I've been in some really intense kitchen environments. But I think it's certainly changing. Whether it's me and Jocelyn, or, there are some other super-noteworthy female butchers, like Kari Underly...
JG:她重新整个食品部门。
EN:是的。她真是太神奇了。那里越来越多的女人。我们也喜欢在一定程度上尝试成为激进主义者。在这种环境下，女士们有支持系统。我是宪章的成员Grrls Meat Camp。It's like some charcuterists, some preservationists, some farmers. It's all ladies, and we all hang out in the middle of the woods in Michigan once a year and cut up meat together. I have a tremendous appreciation for that stuff, because I think having a mentorship-type program is the best way to grow the culture and to support people.

您是否认为这样的职业的主要障碍之一就是对女性不这样做的看法？

EN:是的，我认为是这样。但是这些天的女性也很棒。他们就像，“无论如何。我将尝试这样做。”
JG:But people do still say stuff like...I read an article the other day about [celebrated Bay Area chef] Dominique Crenn, and someone, I don't know who wrote it, said, "Oh yeah. She's so awesome. She cooks like a man." That's like at the Olympics, when someone was like, "Oh, she's a female Michael Phelps." It's like, she's just a fuckin' thug, and she's good at what she does.

Do you have any tips for someone who wants to get into butchery?

EN:Tips for them? I say, don't stop until you get what you want. You can start by going and buying books that are going to help you out. But ultimately, I think you want to find the spot with people you respect, and people you want the knowledge from, and you just have to ask them as many times as it takes.
JG:Don't pretend like you know anything, or think you know anything, because as soon as you start, you'll be like, "Oh god, I know nothing." I don't know. Just wear a cut glove.

您有任何书籍建议吗？

JG:Merle Ellis.
EN:是的。There's a book that's out of print. Merle Ellis wrote it. It's called在厨房里切割。它是手工插图的，以笔和墨水风格。我认为这是从70年代开始的。
JG:他的书中的插图就像纹身梦的作品一样。绝对是一次旅行。
EN:其他书籍... Kari的基础写了一本非常精彩的书，叫做The Art of Beef Cutting。几年前，也许是三年前，它获得了詹姆斯·比尔德奖。那是这个家伙Thomas Schneller;他是在美国烹饪学院经营肉类计划的人之一，他有一系列非常临床的教科书。完全面向烹饪学校的学生试图弄清楚如何进行整只鸡。

你们俩在家做饭吗？

JG:The past few months have been a special experience of eating a lot of takeout.
EN:It's true. Typically, we are folks who cook at home. I love to cook at home because it makes me feel like a normal human. Especially when things are up in the air and insane. It's meditative.
JG:好吧，我认为成为屠夫是保持对烹饪热爱的好方法，因为我们不整天做饭。

Do you think being a butcher makes you a better cook?

EN:I say yes, but what do you say?
JG:也许更冒险。我比六年前更愿意喂我的朋友的舌头，但是...我不知道。我绝对不再因为我不想在冰箱里食物而扔掉剩菜。我不是世界上最好的厨师，所以...
EN:是的。我们知道在肉类案中卖什么。对于我们来说，如果我们要在家做饭，我们将采取人们不会得到的事情，或者我们尝试做的事情，偶尔我们会陷入困境。但是，我们通常不是那些会为自己带来肋眼或纽约或猪排的人。我们将尝试其他东西。
JG:像猪肉侧面牛排之类的东西。
EN:确切地。Then it allows us the opportunity to take that home, cook it, and then be able to tell our customers, "This is how you do it." Because otherwise, you're just winging it. Your credibility is shot when you wing it in this industry.

What's your favorite meat to eat?

JG:If I'm doing a braise, or a roast, I always want pork. But I would take a steak over a pork chop, if that makes sense. I love chicken, man. People hate on chicken. I think it's awesome. Rabbit—gun to my head, I always pick rabbit.

您最喜欢的肉是什么？

JG:我真的很喜欢猪肩，而且我真的很喜欢扁铁。这些是我的两个最爱。扁铁是这种很棒的混合动力。很多时候，这感觉很ncade废，但确实很快。除非我要煮12个小时，否则我真的没有注意力超过六分钟。
EN:My favorite meat to eat is something that we call the boneless chuck short rib. It's the short rib section, but from the shoulder, not from the actual shoulder. My favorite way of eating it is leaving the bones in and freezing it, and then cutting it really thin on the bandsaw, so it's like agalbicut. Marinate it and cook it on an open flame. I'm all about the outdoor hibachi lifestyle.

What's your favorite animal to break down?

JG:牛肉，绝对是。我认为这感觉最酷。
EN:这是最大的动物。
JG:是的。很有趣。就像锻炼一样。您戴上一些涂料音乐，并提高心率。
EN:My favorite animal to cut up might be a lamb. Lamb is very, very easy to handle, but it's still got all the anatomical characteristics that these other animals have. What I love about it is that it literally is almost the size of my body, but it's hanging. It's almost like I'm doing this dance while cutting it. Don't look at me like that. I don't know. I love it a lot.

这次采访已被编辑和凝结，以确保清晰。

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